meh, i'd like to have myself a good mix of both aspects and land right in the middle, starcraft does that, good scaled battles with a pop cap and bases to replenish forces, but on the same time, a maxed out composition forces you to choose and to think how you'd withstand your opponent. Same thing why i love to play DoW 1, pop cap isn't neccessarily bad, if you have a proper economy management and research trees the game gains in complexity and strategic choices and thus shapes up to be a game of speed chess. _________________ Hydraw Art on Facebook QUICK_EDIT
i personal like pop cap as long as it not too low [like WC3]. this system make people to think twice what unit to build and what strategy they decide to use in that time. without pop max how you can defeat your enemy since your opponent have everything in their base? that lead the game to spam fest and luck base to play. QUICK_EDIT
Zero18, as expected you are ignorant to look up when the game (WZ2100) originally was made and thats well before 2000! One of first retail 3D RTS games and presently its open source developed further while gfx aint todays standards to please your eyes, else it owns all.
As a game, its strategic depth is beyond any title made like simple notion of radars/sensors acting as spotters for artillery to increase range while every other game radar is simply minimap view more or less only...
going all the way using a builder near enemy to build just a sensor tower and thanks to it, rain hell from your area at his all across map at best...
Anyhow gufu and various other ppl pretty much outlined why petro is hardly the best at RTS making and EAW wasn't that big apart from star wars fame playing into it and I would not declare it one of the best rts games ever... it was fair quality game but thats it... Last edited by ApolloTD on Tue Mar 05, 2013 7:12 am; edited 1 time in total QUICK_EDIT
"Your units become more powerful after each match, and you earn in-game currency
Spend your in-game currency to buy booster Commander Packs containing random, collectible units and more"
Joined: 10 Dec 2012 Location: I'm too busy conquering the world!
Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 12:54 pm Post subject:
ApolloTD wrote:
Zero18, as expected you are ignorant to look up when the game (WZ2100) originally was made and thats well before 2000! One of first retail 3D RTS games and presently its open source developed further while gfx aint todays standards to please your
Oh, didn't know that :/
Much of the games today are pay to play, or pay to win games. That gives unbalance gaming system and unfair advantages. Thus preventing newbies from playing it for long period. Probably like a day or so then quit because of the currency system. _________________ Mod Leader and founder of World Domination
at least it good to see they still want to keep making RTS game while most game company today point to make everything base on FPS game. too bad they never come with something i really want to play since EAW and UAW... QUICK_EDIT
Goddamn it. Petroglyph u ztyping noobs. Something in me just died as I saw the kickstarter page. _________________ Free Tibed!
EA for worst company of the decade! QUICK_EDIT
-Battlezone (best known for being a meshing together FPS and RTS)
-Dark Reign (its freeware now but I can't get it to work for some reason...)
-Submarine Titans (first RTS to have a full fledge spectator feature for SP and MP games, has an extremely advanced "AI assistant" that can be tweaked ingame, and is easily modded)
Good times...
Seems that Petro is stuck in a rut... _________________ The future belongs to The Forgotten! QUICK_EDIT
Still shocked that they srsly pull of a game with nothing but:
Riflemen
Rocketguy
Tank
Scoutvehicle
Didn't know wheter to laugh or cry as the video explained me what a scoutvehicle is. Like a shooter explaining me in the tutorial to shoot with left mouseclick it told me that the scout is fast and sees stuff.
That no one wanted to fund it so they had to go on Kickstarter to beg tells it all. _________________ Free Tibed!
EA for worst company of the decade! QUICK_EDIT
Still shocked that they srsly pull of a game with nothing but:
Riflemen
Rocketguy
Tank
Scoutvehicle
RA1 online worked pretty much like this and nobody complained, I guess they figure they can do the 1995 style game in 2013... with all the EA pay to win jazz to get it funded. nice.
Screw petroshit. WWII is a tired old genre, yet it has so much potential for units.. and they pick -that-. gj. _________________ Victory! QUICK_EDIT
Just watched the Kickstarter video...seriously not impressed. Hate to sound like a prick but D-Day online pwns this :/ They should make a Universe At War sequel dammit! That was probably their most creative game.
On the other hand: Frank's impersonation of a 40's war reporter was awesome, the project leader is hot and they have a nice collection of figma (could've sworn there was a Mazinger Z figurine among them...) _________________ The future belongs to The Forgotten! QUICK_EDIT
The project leader is some russian chick(?) seemingly anyhow Petro is seriously out of ideas and WW2 is so done to the death and no base building or eco handling is disappointing, we had more strategy in games of 90s than we get in new games, what gives???
They can't do actual UAW 2 for rights deal probably staying with sega...
I wouldn't expect any more strategic depth to this new game than EoN had and its just reinforce and keep killing deal with pretty fireworks.
Shame but I saw this coming, just beyond my lowest expectations tho :/ QUICK_EDIT
More Petroglyph mediocre bullshit? SNORE. Everything they've done so far has sucked. I want this to be good but I know it will be a pile of lame. I'd say it's wasted talent but even Command & Conquer had its share of dumb to it. _________________ Discord: princess_marisa
Steam QUICK_EDIT
And FFS they should stop compare themselves with already released best selling & top quality games on start when they have to collect money by Kickstarter...
"If World of Tanks, StarCraft and League of Legends had a baby, it would be Victory.”
Saying that Line of Sight is a great functionality Last edited by Martin Killer on Thu Mar 07, 2013 8:15 am; edited 2 times in total QUICK_EDIT
Still shocked that they srsly pull of a game with nothing but:
Riflemen
Rocketguy
Tank
Scoutvehicle
RA1 online worked pretty much like this and nobody complained, I guess they figure they can do the 1995 style game in 2013... with all the EA pay to win jazz to get it funded. nice.
Screw petroshit. WWII is a tired old genre, yet it has so much potential for units.. and they pick -that-. gj.
RA1 online also has base crawling, cruisers, MIGs, Chronosphere, Q hotkey, v2s/arties, faster build speed when you build multiples of a production facility and some other stuff as well
infantry suck though but ra2 has that issue as well (except for using dogs as fodder and Desolators while playing as Iraq) QUICK_EDIT
Still shocked that they srsly pull of a game with nothing but:
Riflemen
Rocketguy
Tank
Scoutvehicle
RA1 online worked pretty much like this and nobody complained, I guess they figure they can do the 1995 style game in 2013... with all the EA pay to win jazz to get it funded. nice.
Screw petroshit. WWII is a tired old genre, yet it has so much potential for units.. and they pick -that-. gj.
RA1 online also has base crawling, cruisers, MIGs, Chronosphere, Q hotkey, v2s/arties, faster build speed when you build multiples of a production facility and some other stuff as well
infantry suck though but ra2 has that issue as well (except for using dogs as fodder and Desolators while playing as Iraq)
I meant it in a reference to RA and the original game which I also think sucks because of the low amount of units, granted the games are old and its ok to have few units back then. Still especially the arty or air or anti air is at a serious lack. But at least you had like he said more stuff than 4 units. Dogs and grenadiers and flamethrower guy and tesla tank and arty and so on. Even Naval battles which makes RA still superior to many new RTS games which come with only land battle.
This concept is a huge fail as the gameplay degenerates to a "spam medium tanks brainlessly at the enemy". Add to this that C&C always ignored autocannons and ATGM or strong powers besides medium tanks. _________________ Free Tibed!
EA for worst company of the decade! QUICK_EDIT
I understand what you mean and yes I don't like it that much either. Similar things with units that are pretty much useless and so shouldn't be made buildable (Spy, Thief) and Mobile Radar Jammer.
The actual issue why infantry are shit in RA1 is tank speed. There's a mini-mod implemented as map mods out there that makes tank speed the same as in Tiberian Dawn and it really makes infantry more viable: http://cnc-comm.com/community/index.php?topic=1982.0
It's been in my personal wishlist to fix the issue with buildings like the Tech Center where if you lose them you still keep the tech acquired from them. The game only has logic to to add stuff to the sidebar and there's a function called whenever a building is created or destroyed to recalculate what objects are still buildable in the sidebar.
From a look at it, the function to recalculate the sidebar does a check for "is there still a production facility that can build me?", if there exists a production facility it goes to the next object in the sidebar otherwise it will clear the object from the sidebar. The check should be changed to "can this object be build still?"
Tank speed? No, what about building multiple war factories to speed up producton? the price values compared to other things? A light tank costs the price of a ranger jeep. I am not a huge fan of the OpenRA project, but bumping tanks up to tier 2 is a pretty good idea. _________________ Victory! QUICK_EDIT
"what about building multiple war factories to speed up producton"
C&C95 has this too and it isn't an issue. While we were playing the ra1 map mod with slow tank speed no one spammed 4324234 War Factories neither. Yeah Ranger is way too expensive.
Bumping tanks to another tier just slows down the game. In C&C95 people still spam Buggies and Humm-vees even when you can buy tanks because Buggies and Humm-vees outrun tanks, are cheap to produce and effective against infantry (they also have range advantage against infantry if you micro them a bit) QUICK_EDIT
Back in the 90's CPUs were much worse than today and game couldn't be so complicated, thus RTS genre had quite simple mechanic with base building, resource gathering but no upgrades, few specials like casted spells or superweapons but nothing more. Petroglyph wants to go back to their cores, but you can't impress anyone today with such a basic gameplay where you only have to control units, it won't work anymore. First fast paced and micro/skill oriented was for sure Starcraft, C&C95/RA1 was too much build more factories and spam tanks where infantry was a meat shield. Westwood spotted it in time that gameplay from first generation might not be enough in next millenia - introducing building upgrades, unit veterancy, not so big flow of cash in Tiberian Sun by slowering an economy and more. Unfortunately for today, Petroglyph shouldn't be a legacy to the C&C franchise - their every next game is worse than previous, they are cutting themselves from C&C by removing base building and normal resource gathering*. Their best game EaW was released 6-7 years ago, that's a lot of time - I think they don't really know how to create a good and interesting gameplay, making maps full of cows that served as resource for a faction with mobile harvester when 2 others had static ones, was a big gameplay flaw. It was a game breaking balance issue. Later we had an issue with EoN, where Trion took a game from them and decided to finish it by themselves. EoN isn't a RTS, it's just a mediocre MMO RTS that is hard to balance cause it's not oriented around core of every RTS - 1v1 matches. And today we have Victory that looks almost the same like 12 years old S.W.I.N.E
*Normal resource gathering - map isn't full of a resources randomly thrown over map or just "CAPTURE THE CONTROL POINT" Last edited by Martin Killer on Thu Mar 07, 2013 8:17 pm; edited 2 times in total QUICK_EDIT
S.W.I.N.E. had more different units than 4 and btw was really awesome and ahead of its time. The main point of Victory seems to be battle cards much like the ruses from RUSE which looks exactly like Victory just way better. Yes games back then were simple because of the PC capabilities back then and I certainly don't blame the game for that. To come up today with this however is ridiculous as S.W.I.N.E. has shown pretty much what the minimum of unit count is that such a game needs to have.
Apparently as far as we know the game petroglyph choose to make a game which is inferior to 12 year old titles and dares to kickstart it. Kickstarter is for games and other stuff that is worthy and can't make it otherwise. Not for degenerated software. As far as I understood it at least. _________________ Free Tibed!
EA for worst company of the decade! QUICK_EDIT
These are completely different RTS games, can't just throw to same bag.
Different base building
Command Center from Starcraft acting as a Refinery in Red Alert
Workers/Harvester difference
Different resources, Cash/Power -> Mineral/Gas/Supply
Different resource gathering
Unit limit
Unit upgrading
Cast spelling/Energy
Support powers
Superweapons Chrono/Iron Curtain/Nuke
Air vessels difference
Navy vessels
In SC you can build from multiple factories, in RA you can only speed up a production by building more factories
Shroud
And much much more
Here you won't have any base building or resource gathering. Just picking units before a game, like in a good RTT game similar to Myth Fallen Lords, there won't be a big difference between SWINE or Victory. Except Victory has no possibility to be played offline Last edited by Martin Killer on Fri Mar 08, 2013 8:55 am; edited 3 times in total QUICK_EDIT
Please look up swine before you say such stuff. If its because of the art style that is because in SWINE Rabbits fight against Pigs hence why it looks a bit cartoony. May check out the Victory infantry which also looks cartoony so your statement lost all meaning. _________________ Free Tibed!
EA for worst company of the decade! QUICK_EDIT
Really, if your gonna do WW2, make the artwork gritty and serious, not this cartoony vibe GUI and thus D-day altar I worship as no game studio can/will go to such depths ever that Mig does. Quick buck games destroy your brain cells. QUICK_EDIT
Really, if your gonna do WW2, make the artwork gritty and serious, not this cartoony vibe GUI and thus D-day altar I worship as no game studio can/will go to such depths ever that Mig does. Quick buck games destroy your brain cells.
And stop saying ffs that via basic RTT protected by DRM you want go back to the original 90's C&C roots - if they didn't hold their title of C&C heritage I bet that they wouldn't even dare to start it on Kickstarter QUICK_EDIT
Martian, where did Petro claim it's got C&C's legacy? yeah it shares the history, but they don't carry the C&C torch - thats for sure. They shouldn't be burdened to make C&Clike games until they stick... though at this rate if they make anything it seems to be a complete ztyping stinker.
Also, WWII does not always need to be gritty and serious. _________________ Victory! QUICK_EDIT
I want to like this, but it really doesn't grip me at all, Volgin is right when he says WWII doesn't need to be serious and gritty, but if you want to go all "wacky worlds" then do it right, this just kinda comes off as a little bit cheesy, but maybe that's good. I don't know anymore, I just play the playstation 1. _________________ QUICK_EDIT
Martian, where did Petro claim it's got C&C's legacy? yeah it shares the history, but they don't carry the C&C torch - thats for sure. They shouldn't be burdened to make C&Clike games until they stick... though at this rate if they make anything it seems to be a complete ztyping stinker.
Also, WWII does not always need to be gritty and serious.
They are a part of C&C for sure, and still hold a torch because of "true" C&C that had poor support after release in today's standards, YR has got only one patch and WOL was a place for annoying bots just after release. Just don't tell others that Petroglyph has no idea how to improve old C&C gameplay or you might get flamed. QUICK_EDIT
who'll play all those MMO's ? the audience surely picks the superior product, it doesn't help showing half assed material to the public to help fund yet another soon to be fully neglected MMO and that with (yeah sad but) CnC and Hots right around the corner. No one will be interrested in this, and publishers know this. _________________ Hydraw Art on Facebook QUICK_EDIT
So it really does look like it doesn't have much in terms of gameplay...
... which means that even if it does get finished, people will lose interest very quickly.
I wonder why they're trying to claim that it's not an RTS... by that logic C&C, Starcraft, Age of Empires, etc suddenly morph into a different genre during single-player missions which don't have bases. _________________ Dawn of the Tiberium Age staff member QUICK_EDIT
Because I should mention them all before the bashing -
- Supreme Commander 1 & Forged Alliance
- Rise of Legends
- Metal Fatigue
- Starcraft, Brood War and SC II
- Warcraft III & Frozen Throne
- Act of War: Direct Action & High Treason
- The entire Dawn of War series, including Soulstorm.
- Tryst. Yes, Tryst.
- World in Conflict
- The original Ground Control & Dark Conspiracy
- Perimeter (ONLY the first however)
It's been nothing but a downhill slope for Petroglyph. Empire at War was alright, but I say it was Universe at War: Earth Assault where things collapsed. Ignoring the Executive Meddling, the plans that Petroglyph had simply didn't match the final product - the game was ridden with bugs, had three incredibly bland factions (with the only faction that might have turned out halfway decent being cut and replaced by the faction intended for an Expansion Pack that never happened), and in short the whole thing just screamed "rushed development". Most of the Ex-Westwood staff (most notably, Adam Isgreen - the lead designer on UaW and a former designer on the Westwood C&C staff) left Petroglyph after this time. In fact, Adam hasn't been seen since the UaW debacle. My guess is he left the industry and has gone on to do other things. It's said he's working on something else, but this has yet to materialize.
Modern Petroglyph is basically a community joke. And before anyone asks, I got to play End of Nations. It was TERRIBLE, easily the worst beta I had experianced. The Dev's were completely one sided when it came to faction balance. It didn't help they conscripted in pretty much everyone and only listened to one guy. The one thing everyone complained about was never, ever fixed to my knowledge. The result? One faction being entirely overpowered, and the other faction really having to scrape it's victories.
And in regards to their other projects, well...if Battle for Graxia isn't a blatent cash in on the DOTA/LoL craze, well I don't know what is.
tl;dr: Petroglyph is a terrible developer that make even amateur modders look professional with the work they create. They're nothing short of a washed up joke these days, and I hope the company goes under soon, if the collapse of End of Nations or this Kickstarter is any indication.
In fact, I wish whoever is now developing End of Nations luck. Maybe they'll start taking feedback better and not make the game as bad as I remember?
Wishful thinking, but a man can dream, right? QUICK_EDIT
Well the kickstarter seams to have foundered, after a week they only have $19,000 of the $700,000 they want. At this rate they'll be lucky to get to $100,000 by the end. _________________
Modern Petroglyph is basically a community joke. And before anyone asks, I got to play End of Nations. It was TERRIBLE, easily the worst beta I had experianced. The Dev's were completely one sided when it came to faction balance. It didn't help they conscripted in pretty much everyone and only listened to one guy. The one thing everyone complained about was never, ever fixed to my knowledge. The result? One faction being entirely overpowered, and the other faction really having to scrape it's victories.
And in regards to their other projects, well...if Battle for Graxia isn't a blatent cash in on the DOTA/LoL craze, well I don't know what is.
tl;dr: Petroglyph is a terrible developer that make even amateur modders look professional with the work they create. They're nothing short of a washed up joke these days, and I hope the company goes under soon, if the collapse of End of Nations or this Kickstarter is any indication.
In fact, I wish whoever is now developing End of Nations luck. Maybe they'll start taking feedback better and not make the game as bad as I remember?
Wishful thinking, but a man can dream, right?
Godly quote of truth! I also was in the end of nations alpha and also beta, just terrible, updates were slow and hardly meaningful and the major imbalance between factions lingered for months. LF often dominated without contest and SR main chance was lame ass constant bomb drop from that one unit which name I forget...
Music also was kinda disappointment to me, Frank is good but the orchestral side seemed too slow in these musics and actual game engine looks worse in visuals than SAGE/RNA and now that EA uses frostbite 2... Petro is so much set back even on visuals department and if that isn't enough, the engine is not too optimized either...
I feel bad for Frank Klepacki, else Petroglyph can just fold down and who knows... this Kickstarter effort may fail if that sign is of any note and push Petro further to the brink. QUICK_EDIT
The kickstarter has been canceled, It was obvious they weren't going to make the target. I think just as many people withdrew their pledges as made them in the last few days.
They have said that "multiple game publishers have expressed interest in Victory" tho so it may still get released in the future. _________________
Thank god they canceled this. Maybe they come up with something now that isn't underwhelming in every aspect. Like EaW Space combat like game or something. Many came out but nothing decent. _________________ Free Tibed!
EA for worst company of the decade! QUICK_EDIT
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