Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 11:10 pm Post subject:
More media and news
Here is more info about newly added units and other stuff and with that comes big surprise for scrin players. I finally created epic unit for scrin, it's big tiberium based creature with ability to seed tiberium. But it's not just that I have also second scrin unit in development, its sort of chemical artillery and I have added meteorite storm support power on tier 3.
Ther is also some new tiberiu based upgrades in development, one of them will improve buzzer hive to be actually usefull.
That's for scrin. Now to others.
Nod got Phantom utility vehicle, which it's repair vehicle with secondary ability to deploy in to stealth generator. Now when Nod got fully working mobile stealth generator I think they don't need temporally field generators deployed by beam cannon as was announced in previous blog, so now I'm working on different ability for beam cannon. Also, I have created new model of Nod Apc and added laser fence wall and I'm working on new tiberium based weapon upgrade (not ready to show you though).
Gdi got only one unit this time - Jump Jet Trooper air born infantry, so I uploaded more sreenshots of new Mammoth MKII too. And I have changed model of Gdi wall section to be more like tiberium sun wall.
Release date is still uncertain, but I will try to make it real until August ends.
So check out image section for new pics. QUICK_EDIT
I think if he had a definite deadline, he would have mentioned it already :p
The thing with modders is normally they don't wanna give set release dates because there's no gurantee they can release on time.
btw carnius while this idea is still fresh in my mind I'd like to post it: Remember that issue with the Nod laser fencing and how I mentioned that it might be a little funny looking for a "barrier" that is 90% empty space and 10% thin laser beams to be able to stop small projectiles like bullets, etc? The idea crossed my mind to have a mix of laser beams plus concrete barrier (like the GDI walls). Basically have an ordinary wall with laser fence posts at the top, something like this
Height-wise it would probably be 1.5 times taller than the GDI wall due to the laser fencing at the top. Also the solid base should be enough to physically connect to the wall hub (your current laser wall hub does not touch the wall pieces at all)
Just a thought. _________________
The white lady~! QUICK_EDIT
Its true that the laser fence does not fit jet, but Carnius still works to improve it.
to Carnius:
Stop me if im wrong
That thing with the concrete wall under the laser defence looks good in detail, but im not sure it does fit for a whole base. Because burning some troops that don't recognize standing on a turned off laser fence is still fun. QUICK_EDIT
(I know that this issue should be in another tread)
I have only one thing to complain about, that is the design of the dropship. I give u a linke beond, where you see how it should really look. I mean its up to u if u wanna change it, but i thought you don't have a good original to make the model.
By the way i give u one or two other links where u can find some good concept arts.
I have played v1.3 up and down, down and up, and one or thwo things to mention:
1. the Dropship
2. No epic for NOD
3. Balance is not good at the moment, TITANS are op (in case of being spammed with) , also commando cyborg, nothing against subterrain units (im multiplayer they spam my base )
Makes sense that Nod wouldn't have one. At least not a HUGE unit.
Not for that reason, just for balancing gameplay. Every unit has it own opponent unit in other factions.
I still like burning men (not the festival) in my laser fence, hope that carnius consider that and make the fence offline able too.
But now to anotherpoint of v1.4, i have looked at the screens at moddb.com and found that the one new hover unit doesn't makes sense, because a rpg turrent on a hover tank Don't know physics, because the hover unit wouldn't stand still if it fires. It would be better if it has a weapon turrent that has no repulsion power like a Laser or less power like a machine gun.
Sorry dude, but I don't think thats Nod (its far more GDI theme than Nod), let alone a mobile Temple of Nod. Where did you get the idea that it was a mobile Temple of Nod? This concept I believe was always regarded as a possible new version of the GDI Mammoth Tank.
Tacitus wrote:
But now to anotherpoint of v1.4, i have looked at the screens at moddb.com and found that the one new hover unit doesn't makes sense, because a rpg turrent on a hover tank Question Don't know physics, because the hover unit wouldn't stand still if it fires. It would be better if it has a weapon turrent that has no repulsion power like a Laser or less power like a machine gun.
RPG = Rocket Propelled Grenade, there would be far less recoil from that than from a cannon projectile. That, and you'd semi hope that in the future they could develop a drive system which would try and compensate for recoil to some extent. _________________ If there is a problem on the forums, PM me. QUICK_EDIT
Sorry dude, but I don't think thats Nod (its far more GDI theme than Nod), let alone a mobile Temple of Nod. Where did you get the idea that it was a mobile Temple of Nod? This concept I believe was always regarded as a possible new version of the GDI Mammoth Tank.
Sorry, my fault, that link schouldnt be there not shure what it does there. _________________ The Tacitus will turn out the truth of the prophecy QUICK_EDIT
btw carnius while this idea is still fresh in my mind I'd like to post it: Remember that issue with the Nod laser fencing and how I mentioned that it might be a little funny looking for a "barrier" that is 90% empty space and 10% thin laser beams to be able to stop small projectiles like bullets, etc? The idea crossed my mind to have a mix of laser beams plus concrete barrier (like the GDI walls). Basically have an ordinary wall with laser fence posts at the top, something like this
This is also interesting solution. I will think about it, but not sure if i get it in to next release. I have my laser fence already working in game you know. But its not perfect so maybe i will try your idea too.
Tacitus wrote:
I have only one thing to complain about, that is the design of the dropship. I give u a linke beond, where you see how it should really look. I mean its up to u if u wanna change it, but i thought you don't have a good original to make the model. Wink
By the way i give u one or two other links where u can find some good concept arts.
I have played v1.3 up and down, down and up, and one or thwo things to mention:
1. the Dropship
2. No epic for NOD
3. Balance is not good at the moment, TITANS are op (in case of being spammed with) , also commando cyborg, nothing against subterrain units (im multiplayer they spam my base Sad )
1.The dropship which deploys mammoth mkII is not final, i will improve its design in future, but for now it serves well as "door" in dropship command
Also it must have bulky design which can contain mammoth mk II, but not be as big to obscure halve of the screen, which could be problem if i use original TS dropship. Also i dont want to do exactly the same models as we seen in tiberian sun. This mod is about to bring TS technologies in to CnC3, but its future so their design might change.
2.I dont want to continue in another talk about nod epic in this thread (there is another) so i make it short. Currently my intentions is not to create huge nod epic, but sort of unique stealth tank. But not even this is certain, because i think Cyborg Commando is quite enough.
3.Balance is problem i know and im afraid this mod will be never properly balanced due subterrain units and other stuff. But i will do everything i can.
Valdes wrote:
Tacitus wrote:
Because burning some troops that don't recognize standing on a turned off laser fence is still fun. Very Happy
I am 99% sure that the those laser fences Carnius has done can't be powered down. Need confirmation from him though.
Right now its exactly like that. They are like ordinary walls, but with cool look. My concern is that make units passing trough and be burned makes only troubles in gameplay. And also the coding stuff is not easy.
Lets pretend that people in future are more clever than today and will not step deliberately it to laser fence
Crimsonum wrote:
Quote:
Every unit has it own opponent unit in other factions.
That's just the easiest way to balance a game, and tbh, the least interesting
I agree. But i still think conqueror fits well for scrin with its unique features.
Muldrake wrote:
Tacitus wrote:
But now to anotherpoint of v1.4, i have looked at the screens at moddb.com and found that the one new hover unit doesn't makes sense, because a rpg turrent on a hover tank Question Don't know physics, because the hover unit wouldn't stand still if it fires. It would be better if it has a weapon turrent that has no repulsion power like a Laser or less power like a machine gun.
RPG = Rocket Propelled Grenade, there would be far less recoil from that than from a cannon projectile. That, and you'd semi hope that in the future they could develop a drive system which would try and compensate for recoil to some extent.
Makes sense that Nod wouldn't have one. At least not a HUGE unit.
Not for that reason, just for balancing gameplay. Every unit has it own opponent unit in other factions.
It's not to the extent that every faction is a carbon copy of each other. If you look at Scrin, do they have a counterpart to the Shadow Team? Or does their Mothership have a GDI/Nod counterpart? etc.
Regarding Tacitus's comment on weaponry in a hover platform, it is worth noting that recoil is the least of the worries. If the tank is hit by a shell or missile, the force will push it back by a considerable distance. That is why it's better to just assume there is some form of thrust vectoring involved which compensates for this stuff (and also helps the vehicle brake or turn). Look at BF2142 they had a hover tank, as in a tank that shoots a shell... _________________
The white lady~! QUICK_EDIT
The other new units look great, but in my mind the Falcon does not really fit, i think the weapon turrent should be a bit bigger to fit to the rest of the unit
Its no critic, its only a suggestion _________________ The Tacitus will turn out the truth of the prophecy QUICK_EDIT
Well for starters it's an unconventional thing. I'm not sure if it's even moddable in the same way tha tI'm not sure if you can mod laser fences that you can power down to allow units to walk through.
The only thing I can think of for the Firestorm is potentially something like a wall section with an "invisible" force field like the Scrin aircraft which regrows extremely rapidly. The issue is how to activate all your wall pieces? You could possibly do it individually using the ability icon slots but that'd be too tedious.
Remember this is Essence, not TSR. It really wouldn't make much sense for Carnius to keep shoving in TS stuff especially it it's superficial or too difficult to adapt _________________
The white lady~! QUICK_EDIT
Im not sure if is firestorm possible to recreate in CnC3 engine. I dont know where to start. Also i was not big user of firestorm back in TS so i dont miss this thing as much. QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 25 Sep 2006 Location: Teamblackistan Posts: Over 9000
Posted: Sun Aug 30, 2009 11:39 pm Post subject:
heh, I loved using it, the opponent would swarm like 20 banshees at me, and I'd down them all at once with a well placed FS wall.
Man, priceless. _________________ The Fall of Hammerfest - Epic Tiberian chain story
Tiberian Odyssey mapping department. Discord The Team Black Index QUICK_EDIT
heh, I loved using it, the opponent would swarm like 20 banshees at me, and I'd down them all at once with a well placed FS wall.
Man, priceless.
And laggy
Imo, Nod should have a different style to GDI, in that GDI has harder hitting, larger, better armoured units - and epic units fit this style.
On the other (black) hand, Nod has faster, cheaper, more expendable, but over all more devious units, which does not fir the epic unit game structure.
The idea of matching every unit to another unit on the opposite sides is a simple yet boring way of balancing a game. Overall a game should be balanced, rather than unit for unit.
While GDI can have their Mammoth MK2, Nod is always able to take it down with Banshees - something which, in the end, is more effective than one epic mech. QUICK_EDIT
I agree on the diversity front. I didn't like how every epic on KW was essentially a perma-garrison vehicle with subtle faction differences, I currently don't like how the crawlers in C&C 4 all seem so similar across factions either.
In fact I'm not entirely comfy with Carnius's Scrin epic either. As awesome as it is, it's really just another Mammoth MK II.
I would've preferred it if Carnius had instead worked on improving the Mothership so that it's more than just a flying catalyst cannon. In fact the Mothership has never really felt like one to me since it's not big (80% of it is empty space) and all it does, literally all it does is fire its cannon. _________________
The white lady~! QUICK_EDIT
Imo, Nod should have a different style to GDI, in that GDI has harder hitting, larger, better armoured units - and epic units fit this style.
On the other (black) hand, Nod has faster, cheaper, more expendable, but over all more devious units, which does not fir the epic unit game structure.
The idea of matching every unit to another unit on the opposite sides is a simple yet boring way of balancing a game. Overall a game should be balanced, rather than unit for unit.
I agree, and its even more challenging for game/mods creators, but definitely more difficult. I have abandoned idea of big nod epic unit already for what im sure i get more complains than acceptance from community.
Valdes wrote:
I agree on the diversity front. I didn't like how every epic on KW was essentially a perma-garrison vehicle with subtle faction differences, I currently don't like how the crawlers in C&C 4 all seem so similar across factions either.
In fact I'm not entirely comfy with Carnius's Scrin epic either. As awesome as it is, it's really just another Mammoth MK II.
I would've preferred it if Carnius had instead worked on improving the Mothership so that it's more than just a flying catalyst cannon. In fact the Mothership has never really felt like one to me since it's not big (80% of it is empty space) and all it does, literally all it does is fire its cannon.
I agree with you too. Conqueror might be mistake (Arachnid as well), but i like the idea scrin have more units based on tiberium, they have created tiberium (or at least they have very close to tiberium) and their technologies should represent that. EA give them only 2 units which have something to do with tiberium, that is seriously not enough for this faction.
I want to change that, yet i know im not doing that much original way.
My idea with conqeror was support unique unit (that is why it seeds tiberium) and maybe it got even more support functions. It got to be no match for mammoth mk II and his railguns, but it will be valuable for its support role. Or at least i will try to do it so.
I want to also rebuild mothership in to something which reflect its name, but im stuck on basic concept for now. Maybe in v1.5 QUICK_EDIT
Carnius, i still want to know when v1.4 comes ready for download. U said it comes when august ends.
Don't worry about, i am not complaining about, i find your work great.
To Orac:
I like the conqueror Unit (almost the tiberian looking). Scrin should have more units that fit to tiberium, because they know everything about it and how to use it as a weapon. _________________ The Tacitus will turn out the truth of the prophecy QUICK_EDIT
That was an alternate PAC concept I did sometime back inspired by the EA original concept for PAC. Maybe it can serve as some inspiration. _________________
The white lady~! QUICK_EDIT
I agree with Valdez on this one. Maybe it should gain a couple of Stormrider-ish lasers as point defence, though this might mess up it's Catalyst Cannon if they're allowed to be player-aimed...I dunno, don't know anything about TW's coding _________________ Please, read the signature rules of the forum. QUICK_EDIT
add some shiz inside the outer circle, maybe a ring of ships "docked" inside like spokes on a wheel... _________________ Yes, work on MV continues. It is not forgotten. QUICK_EDIT
I agree with Valdez on this one. Maybe it should gain a couple of Stormrider-ish lasers as point defence, though this might mess up it's Catalyst Cannon if they're allowed to be player-aimed...I dunno, don't know anything about TW's coding
Coding wise I could intuitively guess that the Mothership could be given a new standard attack, with the catalyst cannon changed from a standard attack to a casted ability. It's got all 4 icon slots free anyway, plenty of space there.
The stormrider lasers are overused though... I'd like to see more of the ion storm lightning personally. _________________
The white lady~! QUICK_EDIT
The mothership, shouldn't have this overpowered Catalyst Weapon.
Its too dam good for destroing everything
But i have another question:
Is it possible to make the Hover tank cross water?? I know that it must be possible because i have found that screen:
Please Carnius make the hover tanks cross water
Hover.JPG
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_________________ The Tacitus will turn out the truth of the prophecy QUICK_EDIT
Aphibious stuff have long been possible in C&C 3. The GDI hovercrafts have locomotors that let them cross water and ground. _________________
The white lady~! QUICK_EDIT
And i wanted to know if its possible for the code from TW that a ground unit crosses water?? _________________ The Tacitus will turn out the truth of the prophecy QUICK_EDIT
That was an alternate PAC concept I did sometime back inspired by the EA original concept for PAC. Maybe it can serve as some inspiration.
This looks interesting, a bit too simple, but good for start. Well i have something to think about.
Tacitus wrote:
The mothership, shouldn't have this overpowered Catalyst Weapon.
Its too dam good for destroing everything
I agree, it should not be stronger than normal superweapon.
Tacitus wrote:
Is it possible to make the Hover tank cross water?? I know that it must be possible because i have found that screen:
Please Carnius make the hover tanks cross water
Valdes wrote:
Aphibious stuff have long been possible in C&C 3. The GDI hovercrafts have locomotors that let them cross water and ground.
Yes it does , but also it move through buildings and rocks, which is not so good. Ist because water is prop model and the only way how to make unit move over water is make it ignore obstacles like prop models are. I guess there should be possibility to separate water from other prop models, but this require rewrite halve of the code, the very thing TSR team have to do to make it work. Too much for me right now. QUICK_EDIT
Interesting. I never knew the water was a prop. I always thought water polygons were special rendered elements which were non physical, like the waypoints and trigger areas. Never really imagined they'd have the characteristics of physical models like buildings and props... _________________
The white lady~! QUICK_EDIT
Yes it does , but also it move through buildings and rocks, which is not so good. Ist because water is prop model and the only way how to make unit move over water is make it ignore obstacles like prop models are. I guess there should be possibility to separate water from other prop models, but this require rewrite halve of the code, the very thing TSR team have to do to make it work. Too much for me right now.
We're actually technically using a simple blend of the TW Hover locomotor and a low-altitude aircraft locomotor. The most important thing is not to set surfaces to CRUSHABLE_OBSTACLE as this will ruin pathfinding.
The only problem we have encountered so far is that such amphibious units can "jump" on bridges when approaching them from the side, which can IMO only be prevented by editing the map. This might be a more severe problem for TE than TSR though, seeing that we have only edited and custom made maps anyways.
If you want to give it a try, here's the relevant code snippets:
Code:
[...]
Surfaces="GROUND WATER DEEP_WATER"
[...]
BehaviorZ="SURFACE_RELATIVE_HEIGHT_ALLOW_ZERO_HEIGHT"
Appearance="TREADS"
UseTerrainSmoothing="true"
PreferredHeight="0"
[...]
wait if you edit the map such that units with aircraft locomotor cannot 'jump' up bridges doesn't it affect the aircraft as well? _________________
The white lady~! QUICK_EDIT
Aircraft locomotors are by default set to ignore passability of terrain, just as they ignore cliffs (which actually means ignoring the passability flag). This is handled by the Surfaces parameter(s).
Our hover locomotor is an aircraft locomotor in so far that it is set to adjust its "altitude" to the highest surface level beneath it - this includes water as well as bridges. It also has limited capabilities of "gliding" instead of remaining glued to steep terrain. When using classic ground locomotors, units will stick to the terrain even when there's a water surface above them; water locomotors cause them to snap to the water plane once there's one beneath or above them - even when this means falling through bridges or terrain. This is mainly handled by the BehaviorZ parameter. _________________ Off Duty. QUICK_EDIT
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More media and news
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not shure what it does there.
