Posted: Sat Sep 24, 2011 10:23 pm Post subject:
Keep Snow Buildings or Ditch Them?
I was discussing this with m7/m666 the other day and he brought up a valid point - it makes no goddamn sense. How does a freshly constructed building somehow magically become covered with snow? Especially with no visible snowfall. The concept is silly so I'm considering removing all theater specific images in favor of their generic counterparts so it makes more sense. However, I'd like some feedback on the idea before I proceed.
NB: Does not apply to civilian structures. _________________ Discord: princess_marisa
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Well the idea of having snow on the buildings is to make them blend in more with the scenery, though I do agree that a newly constructed building shouldnt be covered with snow. My mod is set up the same way, all theaters use the same image. The theater palettes alone make them fit just fine. I say kill it, and besides it saves a hell of alot of time too _________________
The enemy shall be injected with toxic poison - Venom QUICK_EDIT
C&C3 doesn't have a Arctic theater, but yeah, it is a little odd to have magical snow appear on new buildings. What about civilian buildings that are likely to be there already though?
EDIT: Now I feel stupid for not reading properly. Last edited by Darkstorm on Sun Sep 25, 2011 6:51 am; edited 1 time in total QUICK_EDIT
C&C3 doesn't have a Arctic theater, but yeah, it is a little odd to have magical snow appear on new buildings. What about civilian buildings that are likely to be there already though?
C&C3 does have one; In KW. And there's no snow on structures.
The only RTS I know that did Snow well, was Earth 2150. When it snowed heavily, the buildings would accumulate snow and ice on them. If that isn't possible in a C&C game, there's no need to even bother with snowy structures, I guess. QUICK_EDIT
Alright, seems like those who are posting are mostly in favor of this idea. Those of you voting that I should keep the snow theater variants, is there any particular reason why? I'd like some feedback in either direction. _________________ Discord: princess_marisa
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I'd keep snow as it simply looks good, it adds to the atmosphere and, I don't know, makes it feel colder. I always liked those arctic RA2 missions where the structures just look completely frozen supporting the 'cold wind' ambience and on top of that a gloomy track like Eagle Hunter, it's very atmospheric. I don't know why you'd get rid of it at all, it just looks fantastic... all the snow variants look better IMO. QUICK_EDIT
I'd keep snow as it simply looks good, it adds to the atmosphere and, I don't know, makes it feel colder. I always liked those arctic RA2 missions where the structures just look completely frozen supporting the 'cold wind' ambience and on top of that a gloomy track like Eagle Hunter, it's very atmospheric. I don't know why you'd get rid of it at all, it just looks fantastic... all the snow variants look better IMO.
The ambiance isn't from the snow covered structures, which still don't make sense (snow melts, you know). The darkness and music do more than just some ice hanging off the side of a building. Besides, it still doesn't make sense for a war machine structure to retain snow and ice on it. There would be more than enough heat being generated to keep the snow from sticking or piling on, unless it was actually snowing. _________________ Discord: princess_marisa
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Huh? Then why are the ground, the trees and civi structures laced with the snow?
FurryQueen wrote:
The darkness and music do more than just some ice hanging off the side of a building.
I don't think so, in missions particularly it creates the effect that the structures have been there a long time. It makes the game feel grimier and more dismal with ice covered structures as opposed to the bright jolly RA2 structures popping up in the middle of a freezing Siberian winter.
FurryQueen wrote:
Besides, it still doesn't make sense for a war machine structure to retain snow and ice on it. There would be more than enough heat being generated to keep the snow from sticking or piling on, unless it was actually snowing.
I don't know why you seem to ping pong between realism and simple fun. As soon as people take C&C seriously and mention the impossibilities of game mechanics you spout that it's only a game and it shouldn't matter.
Well: it's only a game. Structures popping out of the ground is as silly as structures popping out of the ground with snow on top. It looks damn cool IMO, so why remove it? It adds graphical depth, more immersion in the maps atmosphere, also simply a variation on the structures we see every game, I mean for the same reason you might as well remove all extra theatres in the game as ultimately they don't look real and don't have any gameplay effects...
I bet if WW were too lazy to make snow versions you'd complain. QUICK_EDIT
Well, as some people said, yeah, it creates quite an good ambience (snow missions FTW), well, what if where you build an structure, the snow that covered that place got in top of the building(?)
Also, if you plan to remove it, make the building have an colder theme to fit the ambient or an (UBER)animation that it makes the building show snow with time. (if that was even possible...) QUICK_EDIT
It's stupid for buildings you build. Map has no snowstorm occurring and the units don't have snow images (but might have been outside for hours), but suddenly a building packed inside of a vehicle pops out and it's instantly caked in ice? it's stupid.
That said, I'd consider snowing up the bibs of things like the Refinery and War Factory, but that's it. _________________ Victory! QUICK_EDIT
Huh? Then why are the ground, the trees and civi structures laced with the snow?
The trees, ground and civilians aren't going to generate the type of heat that would melt the snow. We're talking about war structures; each specifically designed for a particular function. I would think a vehicle production plant would be hot as shit inside. Nobody's going to waste time cooling it or streamlining it. Same goes for the rest of the structures you can build from nothing without so much as a worker or a dozer.
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I don't think so, in missions particularly it creates the effect that the structures have been there a long time. It makes the game feel grimier and more dismal with ice covered structures as opposed to the bright jolly RA2 structures popping up in the middle of a freezing Siberian winter.
Missions are one thing, but I'm talking about multiplayer and skirmish here. When it comes down to it, that's the focus rather than missions. In the end, does it make sense to have snow appear out of nowhere when there's a serious lack of a snowstorm?
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I don't know why you seem to ping pong between realism and simple fun. As soon as people take C&C seriously and mention the impossibilities of game mechanics you spout that it's only a game and it shouldn't matter.
I'm talking about pure aesthetics here. Removing arctic theater images has nothing to do with how the game actually plays since this won't change anything about the game's mechanics. I'm only applying rational thought because it's one tiny area where logic can actually apply to RA2.
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Well: it's only a game. Structures popping out of the ground is as silly as structures popping out of the ground with snow on top. It looks damn cool IMO, so why remove it? It adds graphical depth, more immersion in the maps atmosphere, also simply a variation on the structures we see every game, I mean for the same reason you might as well remove all extra theatres in the game as ultimately they don't look real and don't have any gameplay effects...
You're right, it is just a game, and I want to change that game. And it may add graphical depth, and I may take away from that somewhat, but there will be much more involved with graphical depth than ice on a building so it won't matter either way. Besides, I'll have a few new options structure-wise so that I can better improve other aspects.
Oh, and about theaters, it's variations on a theme. At least their design makes some (mostly) logical sense (except lunar).
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I bet if WW were too lazy to make snow versions you'd complain.
Not likely. _________________ Discord: princess_marisa
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Joined: 28 Apr 2009 Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 3:14 am Post subject:
There is something to be said for having snow structures, buildings hat have in fact been there for extended periods ie. pre-built bases in a campaign will have snow on them. New ones however wont... Captain Obvious I know but that has to be taken into account. _________________ Beta Tester for Mental Omega 3.0
I would vote in favor of snow frames since it adds to the athmosphere.
FurryQueen wrote:
How does a freshly constructed building somehow magically become covered with snow? Especially with no visible snowfall. The concept is silly so I'm considering removing all theater specific images in favor of their generic counterparts so it makes more sense.
Well, the whole concept of massive buildings being built in seconds out of nowhere already goes against realism, but it's just something we accept and don't think about much. _________________ QUICK_EDIT
I wish, but that's not the case. However, there are a couple of community structures that I'd like to use, but lack snow. _________________ Discord: princess_marisa
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TI doesn't have snow buildings because the artic theater will be used for something else.
Err, we don't have snow on buildings because there is no snow theater at the present moment. It's not decided yet what the additional theater is used for. _________________ QUICK_EDIT
Hmm, yeah, having snow on new buildings seems quite...illogical, but then you have buildings that are there for some time, what to do? Just create double buildings for all reasons?
Yeah, i rather you just get rid of all snow buildings than see that. =S
@m7: yeah, i dunno, i suppose it not all that hard if you managed to make an build-up, some animations and all. And, well, i suppose for you to make an, let's say, entire side to match, an individual modeler should do each of it's buildings, soo it doesn't look odd. QUICK_EDIT
The only time you'll see snow on an Allied, Soviet and Yuri building would be that it sat there for a duration of time and that would only be in a mission. Since this mod won't have missions in the traditional sense, it's not really necessary.
And everyone should also keep in mind that arctic structures are not all going the way of the dodo. Civilian and tech structures will retain their snowy counterparts because it makes perfect sense for those to have snow. Preplaced and all that funky jazz.
Though, I do find it interesting how many actually support the idea of arctic base structures. The poll was a barometer for public opinion, not actually changing my mind. _________________ Discord: princess_marisa
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Joined: 18 Feb 2005 Location: Star Kingdom of Manticore
Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 12:20 pm Post subject:
I remember morpher and LKO talking about using looping animations with an end point to create snow (and dirt for that matter) build up over time in TS. I don't know if it's possible in YR though... _________________ "Reality is a lovely place, but I wouldn't want to live there." -Adam Young QUICK_EDIT
Also Known As: evanb90 Joined: 20 Feb 2005 Location: o kawaii koto
Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 3:09 pm Post subject:
I would say remove the snow from the buildings, but leave atleast some snow on the pavement/"bibs" of the structures (how isn't that snow going to get everywhere?) _________________ YR modder/artist, DOOM mapper, aka evanb90
Project Lead Developer, New-Star Strike (2014-)
Former Project Lead DeveloperStar Strike (2005-2012), Z-Mod (2006-2007), RA1.5 (2008-2013), The Cold War (2006-2007) QUICK_EDIT
Jews. Duh. Jews hate Christmas and killed Christ. They don't like it, and Christmas=Snows. They don't like any of this shit. Jews will keep snow off bibs. _________________ Victory! QUICK_EDIT
I really hope TI doesn't have a snow theater. You can't make snow look good in a game.
Yeah, you'll say that right up until TI makes snow look eye popping amazing.
Anyhow, I looping animation would be something to explore. Otherwise, I'd say that it doesn't make a huge difference and it opens up new graphics options since some people don't make snow versions. QUICK_EDIT
Yeah, you'll say that right up until TI makes snow look eye popping amazing.
Actually, no. I hate snow and fully intend to replace or remove it in my mod. I'll find a more suiting theater where snow isn't all on the ground but instead more like a rough LAT, used as detail. QUICK_EDIT
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Keep Snow Buildings or Ditch Them?
I always liked those arctic RA2 missions where the structures just look completely frozen supporting the 'cold wind' ambience and on top of that a gloomy track like Eagle Hunter, it's very atmospheric. I don't know why you'd get rid of it at all, it just looks fantastic... all the snow variants look better IMO.
