I have few questions regarding specific cliff tiles, I would be glad if someone could clarify some info.
1) About adjacent cells near cliffs: (found also in this tutorial from Aro https://ppmforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=29535 under Special Cliff Cells section). Do these adjacent cells need to have only clear ground or can also these tiles ground1, ground2, ground3 be applied?
2) In double level cliffs or cliffs close together (example on pic bellow), does it also need clear ground or it doesn't matter since it's area is not accessible?
3) What symptoms have broken pathfinding exactly? (lag, IE, freeze, unit stuck?)
4) Does cliff overlapping have any negative effect when same types of cliffs are used? (for example half of C5 next to C6 tile?)
Do these adjacent cells need to have only clear ground or can also these tiles ground1, ground2, ground3 be applied?
It isn't related to the tile properties per se, but rather Tiberium. If you let Tiberium spawn on these cells, you will immediately face pathfinding problems. For example you can place pavement or green crystal (which Tiberium cannot grow upon) on these cells to make them passable without risking the pathfinding bug.
Tuc0 wrote:
2) In double level cliffs or cliffs close together (example on pic bellow), does it also need clear ground or it doesn't matter since it's area is not accessible?
It doesn't matter because the cells are impassable, i.e. Tiberium cannot spawn on them.
Tuc0 wrote:
3) What symptoms have broken pathfinding exactly? (lag, IE, freeze, unit stuck?)
Only units getting stuck and/or ignoring move commands near these cells (that is, if Tiberium exists on them. See my writings above). This applies to all ground units. This is particularly annoying with Harvesters who might be able to automatically move to a Tiberium field but not get out because of careless tile placement.
Tuc0 wrote:
4) Does cliff overlapping have any negative effect when same types of cliffs are used? (for example half of C5 next to C6 tile?)
Usually not, the pathfinding engine is usually surprisingly robust/flexible when it comes to cutting and pasting parts of terrain. There are just these annoying special cases that mappers should keep in mind. _________________ QUICK_EDIT
For example you can place pavement or green crystal (which Tiberium cannot grow upon) on these cells to make them passable without risking the pathfinding bug.
Sadly, my map is already done without any FS terrain and any crystal tiles wouldn't fit in map. So I guess my only option is using cropped rough ground terrain 0035 tiles to avoid tiberium spawn (or maybe using small cliff tiles lowered to ground level also making it impassable).
Is it possible to spread those 1 cell cropped rough tiles easily using text editor? Or it is not worth the time?
Edit: added pics bellow, seems to work. Used 1 cell of rough ground (next to buggy) and lowered cliff edge (next to tank)
If you insist on having those cells passable, then yeah, you need to use pavement or some workaround like the big rough tiles (#0035). However, if you leave these cells clear, then they will be automatically impassable ingame, and also block Tiberium from spawning on them (Tiberium cannot spawn on any impassable tiles). Thus there's no need to put such impassable tiles like cliff corners on these cells, simply leave them clear. _________________ QUICK_EDIT
However, if you leave these cells clear, then they will be automatically impassable ingame, and also block Tiberium from spawning on them (Tiberium cannot spawn on any impassable tiles). Thus there's no need to put such impassable tiles like cliff corners on these cells, simply leave them clear.
Wow thanks, I didn't noticed that. Interesting behavior. QUICK_EDIT
I guess for veins overlay those tiles needs to be only impassable, since it can grow on anything passable (including pavement, rough ground, crystal tiles) QUICK_EDIT
Update: Also all cliffs from C23 - C40 share same bahavior, basicaly every cliff that hides cells behind them. If any other ground is placed behind, it becomes passable, also tiberium can spawn there. Probably also breaks pathfinding, but I am not sure how to test pathfinding correctly
Going that deep into the cliff shouldn't be possible. I never even saw sth. similar. Might be because the cliff is incorrectly made... _________________ One and only developer of the Command & Conquer Dune "C&C D" mod.
m7 wrote:
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Going that deep into the cliff shouldn't be possible. I never even saw sth. similar. Might be because the cliff is incorrectly made...
It is always possible, if ground behind cliff isn't clear ground. In testing I put ground2 behind cliff (last picture, shown in 2D, ussing D key in FS) and it becomes passable. QUICK_EDIT
but I am not sure how to test pathfinding correctly
it should break already when you try to send a unit from one side of the bad cell to the other side.
As soon as a pathfinding calculated path leads over such a cell, the unit simply doesn't move at all when giving a move order.
try changing CliffBackImpassability in rules.ini from 2 to 0 and see what happens.
I assume the special impassability logic is a result of this key. Maybe it works better with a different setting, but i never tested that key. _________________ SHP Artist of Twisted Insurrection: Nod buildings
try changing CliffBackImpassability in rules.ini from 2 to 0 and see what happens.
I assume the special impassability logic is a result of this key. Maybe it works better with a different setting, but i never tested that key.
You are right! Run few tests and all those pathfinding failures occurs because of CliffBackImpassability=2 settings. If set =2 (default value), units are not able to move behind cliffs if ground is clear behind these cliffs:
- 2 cells behind cliffs C23-C40
- adjacent cells for special cliffs C1,C2,C21,C22 and possibly R7,R10,R5,R8 cliff slopes
But if CliffBackImpassability is set to any other number (tested: -1; 0; 1; 1.5; 1.9; 10), cells behind cliffs are always passable, even cells near those C1,C2,C21,C22 cliffs are passable, tiberium can spawn there and units can move there freely without breaking pathfinding.
So I assume that tiberium pathfinding issues occurs because of half-working CliffBackImpassability=2 setting
Only valid value for CliffBackImpassability is 2. Any other value would let
you place building very close to the back cliff, where the rendering might
overlap with cliff edge.
Also, when it comes to cells it should be positive whole numbers. Game
would consider decimal values like 1.5 or 1.9 as 1. QUICK_EDIT
E1 Elite, are you a former Westwood engine programmer?
From the moment you joined PPM, your inside knowledge amazed me each time. Thanks for your helpful answers. _________________ SHP Artist of Twisted Insurrection: Nod buildings
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Cliff & Pathfinding questions
