Posted: Thu Dec 28, 2017 6:46 pm Post subject:
Naval Units
Subject description: A review of the currently available naval units in DTA
Hello everyone,
I want to focus on some new inclusion to the Soviet naval forces. Specifically the new additions. Below I have outlined the current Soviet Navy, with my review below.
Soviet:
Submarine - A stealthy ship hunter that excels at sneak attacks an ambushes. Encountering a single sub when in unknown waters can prove disasterious to commanders. They are also armed with a surface cannon, but that should only be used in the most dire of circumstances.
Missile Sub - An incredibly frightening sight when they appear and launch their missiles. Perfect for hit and run tactics from great range, they can also be used in mass to siege targets. They are also adept at eliminating airborne threats, which make commanders think twice before sending a sortie of air units after them.
Sea Mines - Self detonating mobile explosives that utilize stealth in the open water. If deployed well Sea Mines can decimate an entire fleet well before an enemy can react. Perfect for bottle necks or generating an invisible wall around an otherwise open location.
Ekranoplan Aircraft Carrier - A Fast moving fortress of death. Not only can it accelerate to high speeds, it can also launch drones, and fire missiles to eliminate nearby foes. Commanders are careful to prevent one of these making berth off their coastline.
Project 941 - A behemoth of a submarine capable of launching a salvo of missiles that will deal terrible amounts of damage. Project 941 can launch torpedoes like its submarine counter part, but must be protected from enemy vessels due to its slow speed.
All:
Repair Ship - This vessel comes in many styles but they all serve the same purpose, to repair vessels out on open waters. If protected and near a fleet they can ensure a long term battle in even a protracted engagement of attrition.
Einhander's overview:
My opinion is that most of the naval units are very well balanced with the over all game play. However there are a few that seem out of sync with the rest.
The Soviet Ekranoplan Aircraft Carrier in my opinion is indeed overpowered when compared to the GDI Aircraft Carrier. The Ekranoplan not only can deploy drones (at a slightly shorter distance), but can move faster and attack close range targets with missiles comparable to the missile sub. These attributes make the requirements of an escort fleet pointless for such a unit. In my own testing I have had an Enkranoplan stand its ground against 3 Nod Scarabs and a Laser Corvette. Any other top tier naval unit that would attempt such an action at close range would be destroyed.
Art style wise:
The Ekranoplan and soviet repair ship unfortunately don't fit the same art style as the rest of the Soviet units. I'm not saying the art style is bad, to be honest I think the design is very well done and alluring. However the utilitarian style of the Soviet units clash with these new inclusions.
When I first encountered the new additions I honestly thought they looked like units one would see in Red Alert 3's faction the Empire of the Rising Sun. The style seemed similar to techno japanese vs. Soviet era mass production.
I understand that nit picking at an art style for a unit can be misconstrued as unfair criticism, but believe me when I say that it not my intention.
From my perspective instead of including a vessel that can be produced endlessly that is immensely powerful, I would have just buffed the Project 941 to make it a much more serious threat considering the player can only field one at a time.
Was there a considerable amount of feedback on the Soviet Naval units that required the addition of the Ekranoplan Aircraft Carrier? QUICK_EDIT
I can see where you're coming from concerning the Ekranoplan's appearance, but it would be a waste to just get rid of it since LKO already took the effort to make it.
I think that for now I'll just nerf its missiles to be exactly like the Missile Sub's only with a burst of 1 instead of 2, but it might be an idea to give the Ekranoplan a build limit of 1 (or maybe 3) in the future to make it as special as it looks (it really doesn't look like a unit that should ever be mass-produced). _________________ QUICK_EDIT
When i made it, i actually thought about AA-missiles only.
The drones can do all the ground work.
A buildlimit of 3 to 5 sounds fine to me, though then soviets have again no mass producible capital ship. Which makes fighting 20-40 enemy cruiser or carrier plus escorts pretty hard with little glass cannon subs only. _________________ SHP Artist of Twisted Insurrection: Nod buildings
Can't you have something akin to the Dreadnought in RA2 or Yuri's Boomer? _________________ One and only developer of the Command & Conquer Dune "C&C D" mod.
m7 wrote:
I tend to release things I create so that assets are never lost to hard drive problems, accidental deletion, or me having to pretend to care about rippers taking things from my project when it is done.
You can have them spawn missiles that then explode in mid-air into several bits.
Or something. That is something that DeeZire, I believe, came up with for his mod, for the Red Oktober.
I have the code for it, but couldn't make sense of it. _________________ One and only developer of the Command & Conquer Dune "C&C D" mod.
m7 wrote:
I tend to release things I create so that assets are never lost to hard drive problems, accidental deletion, or me having to pretend to care about rippers taking things from my project when it is done.
Splits or Airburst logic has nothing to do with Spawner logic, which you first implied by mentioning dreadnaught/boomer.
And i mentioned this is the TS engine, because destroyable projectiles are not possible (like the carrier drones in DTA which can no be destroyed).
So right now i have no clue what you actually want to suggest here.
If you aren't aware, DTA has already a logic like this
for the GDI aircraft carrier and the soviet Ekranoplan.
Though with less bombs and instead multiple drones. _________________ SHP Artist of Twisted Insurrection: Nod buildings
Don't get me wrong, the Soviet Ekranoplan is a good ship. It's just a really good ship compared to the rest.
The problem I see here is that the Soviets have been pigeon holed into mostly submarine warfare vs. conventional open sea warfare. This makes countering various assaults difficult as the Soviet player has to be very careful about how they deploy their navy.
The Soviet Naval units are also fairly slow to the attack since they have to surface to fire. However I think I have 2 solutions for this.
What if the Soviet Submarine did not have to surface to fire?
Would this resolve their issue vs. other fleets? Many of the other fleets have the capacity to identify the submarines.
Or What if the Soviets were given a Destroyer? There is currently no class ship in DTA labeled as a Destroyer, however the ship itself would need to be balanced.
Then we have the issue were the Soviet Navy has way more naval units available to their disposal vs. the rest of the factions. Currently the Soviets have 2 extra units compared to the rest. Granted they have poor units such as the Sea mine, but they can be used effectively.
From my perspective the biggest issue the Soviets have to contend with is speed. There is a pause to fire their main sub units, which is a delay the other ships lack, they also cannot launch torpedoes through each other making mass fleets like other factions impossible for them. The key is how the game play unfolds. QUICK_EDIT
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Naval Units
