Open Tiberian Sun

Judeau · Commander **Joined**: 28 Feb 2004

I am in need of your thoughts on the subject of Tiberian Sun in 3D.
The goal of this project would be recreating tiberian sun in a 3d engine.
Voxel formats would no longer be supported, the same with shps.
Modding inis would still be available, and you could easily add new units/buildings, if you learned basic 3d.

The advtanges of this would be : full 3d perspective, first person controlling of vehicles, far reaching modding support, improved graphics

disadvantages : a new base set of graphics would have to be made

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ViPr · Gauss Rifle Trooper **Joined**: 30 Dec 2004

i would only be interested though if the engine was equal or better than Unreal Engine 3. and it would be nice if you make it so that almost every unit can be controlled by one player from first person view.

Apex · Posted: Fri May 25, 2007 4:52 pm Post subject:

So maybe have a commander campaign and a soldier campaign or mini games...nice. The thing is that Python usually is better for 3D games when you know how to use it. Python usually never uses equal signs but "-" and "()". The AI can usually be coded better. Since with 3D engines there are almost never 90 degree wall and python has line like "AIAnglePass(40)" preventing AI from climing steep hills.

Judeau · Commander **Joined**: 28 Feb 2004

The Colonel wrote:

So maybe have a commander campaign and a soldier campaign or mini games...nice. The thing is that Python usually is better for 3D games when you know how to use it. Python usually never uses equal signs but "-" and "()". The AI can usually be coded better. Since with 3D engines there are almost never 90 degree wall and python has line like "AIAnglePass(40)" preventing AI from climing steep hills.

I'll try not to be too offensive, but inanity of your statement is rather ...infuriating.

execute this :

Printf( "I will not insult coders again" );

for( i = 0 ; i >= 0 ; i++ )
Printf( "I will not talk about things I know close to nothing about\n" );

now, make an actual game from scratch in C, and make one from scratch in python, then make sure they do exactly the same in their code.

then, tell me which goes at 1 FPS

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John Galt · Posted: Fri May 25, 2007 5:39 pm Post subject:

Quote:

So maybe have a commander campaign and a soldier campaign or mini games...nice. The thing is that Python usually is better for 3D games when you know how to use it. Python usually never uses equal signs but "-" and "()". The AI can usually be coded better. Since with 3D engines there are almost never 90 degree wall and python has line like "AIAnglePass(40)" preventing AI from climing steep hills.

Hello kids. Today's lesson is "How to sound intelligent while having absolutely no clues about the subject at hand". And you've just witnessed the perfect example, The Colonel's awesomely insightful post about Python, 3D and parentheses. Did you manage to make any sense of it? That's all right, he didn't either. See, that's the beauty of this skill - as long as nobody tries to actually think about your comments, you actually appear intelligent.
And thanks to the equal rights movements, idiots like that will never be disposed of. For shame, really.

ORCACommander · Posted: Fri May 25, 2007 6:43 pm Post subject:

I would like to see 3d But I can't model for shit.

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Von Kriplespac · General **Joined**: 01 Sep 2004 **Location**: Somewhere

DCoder wrote:

Quote:

So maybe have a commander campaign and a soldier campaign or mini games...nice. The thing is that Python usually is better for 3D games when you know how to use it. Python usually never uses equal signs but "-" and "()". The AI can usually be coded better. Since with 3D engines there are almost never 90 degree wall and python has line like "AIAnglePass(40)" preventing AI from climing steep hills.

Hello kids. Today's lesson is "How to sound intelligent while having absolutely no clues about the subject at hand". And you've just witnessed the perfect example, The Colonel's awesomely insightful post about Python, 3D and parentheses. Did you manage to make any sense of it? That's all right, he didn't either. See, that's the beauty of this skill - as long as nobody tries to actually think about your comments, you actually appear intelligent.
And thanks to the equal rights movements, idiots like that will never be disposed of. For shame, really.

This post is made of epic win and good.
Anyway, good luck on it Judeau.

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...

Mortecha · Posted: Sat May 26, 2007 2:21 am Post subject:

I really like the 3D idea. Good luck Judeau. Nice infinite for loop #Tongue

.

Gangster · Posted: Sat May 26, 2007 3:10 am Post subject:

I dont know, if new engine will be better then say... Generals engine or CnC3. I can do 3d models but who else can do right.. optimized model?

Okay. I ll try to mod your engine. But i cant guarantie anything completed and playable done on it.

Good luck anyway. Smile

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OmegaBolt · Posted: Sat May 26, 2007 9:53 am Post subject:

Sounds like a plan. I vote yes.

ChielScape · Posted: Sat May 26, 2007 10:37 am Post subject:

Von Kriplespac wrote:

DCoder wrote:

Quote:

So maybe have a commander campaign and a soldier campaign or mini games...nice. The thing is that Python usually is better for 3D games when you know how to use it. Python usually never uses equal signs but "-" and "()". The AI can usually be coded better. Since with 3D engines there are almost never 90 degree wall and python has line like "AIAnglePass(40)" preventing AI from climing steep hills.

Hello kids. Today's lesson is "How to sound intelligent while having absolutely no clues about the subject at hand". And you've just witnessed the perfect example, The Colonel's awesomely insightful post about Python, 3D and parentheses. Did you manage to make any sense of it? That's all right, he didn't either. See, that's the beauty of this skill - as long as nobody tries to actually think about your comments, you actually appear intelligent.
And thanks to the equal rights movements, idiots like that will never be disposed of. For shame, really.

This post is made of epic win and good.
Anyway, good luck on it Judeau.

seconded

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Oshog · Posted: Sat May 26, 2007 10:56 am Post subject:

Well, let's say Tiberian Sun has enough 3D graphics out there, which can be used. And people can donate the rest.

What I'm concerned - who will make the coding part? That will be a hell of a lot work for a single man and I have no idea how a team can be assembled.

ORCACommander · Posted: Sat May 26, 2007 12:31 pm Post subject:

I can manage to get the renegade models into .OBJ format then someone can import them to 3dsmax.

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Kiith-Sa · Rocket Cyborg **Joined**: 26 Oct 2004

So are you going totally from scratch? Not even your own voxel format?I think they could still be pretty good altough zooming/filtering would be a pain in the ass. Anyway, it's way simpler/faster to go with just triangle meshes and the resulting engine would be probably better.

Awaiting new source release... I won't code C but I can give tips/test.

And people,please: Don't talk about advanced features while there's not even... nothing (remember OpenSun?).

I'd like if this engine had a map format, static and possibly animated mesh rendering, etc... #Tongue

Don't expect Unreal Engine 3. You'd need a genius and an army of coders to do that.

Also, stuff like combining FPS/RTS view/logic is extremely hard to code, it will be used in 2 mods and none of them will actually use it right to improve gameplay. When it's going to be OS, code it yourself if you want it.

I'd say first build TS-equivalent today-looking engine. Then add more logic.

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Time will tell...

Crimsonum · Seth **Joined**: 14 Jul 2005 **Location**: Fineland

Sounds like an excellent plan, but I think I wont be able to help any graphical way...

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Lightstorm · Posted: Sat May 26, 2007 2:43 pm Post subject:

IDEA:: I'm sure you've seen the user interface WW designed for Tiberian Twilight? well I'd use that interface in your game.
this sounds awesome, good luck.

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Pepzi · Posted: Sat May 26, 2007 9:45 pm Post subject:

What would the format(s) be for 3D models? Gangster/Jabberwoky is a good example of masterful 3D modeling.

It sure would be nice if this game had the same features as TS, and more thereof. Sounds like a challenge, don't you think?

Gangster · Posted: Sat May 26, 2007 10:49 pm Post subject:

I ll be glad to work on exact TS copy.. but improvements\changes\revisions is not for me.

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Lightstorm · Posted: Sun May 27, 2007 4:31 pm Post subject:

Update: this is the sidebar i think should be used, ignore the hideous looking defenisve platform and happy looking terrain, the only thing that should be used is the sidebar

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Judeau · Commander **Joined**: 28 Feb 2004

Lightstorm wrote:

Update: this is the sidebar i think should be used, ignore the hideous looking defenisve platform and happy looking terrain, the only thing that should be used is the sidebar

with this , you mean a TS style sidebar #Tongue

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Micro TS
Portable, no campaign, movies or music, just the engine and needed resources for skirmish and lan.

Judeau · Commander **Joined**: 28 Feb 2004

here's a test

terrain engine -blur.PNG

Description:

blurred heightmap

Filesize:

1.08 MB

Viewed:

42874 Time(s)

terrain engine.PNG

Description:

sharp heightmap

Filesize:

1.04 MB

Viewed:

42875 Time(s)

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ViPr · Gauss Rifle Trooper **Joined**: 30 Dec 2004

what is that?

Judeau · Commander **Joined**: 28 Feb 2004

ViPr wrote:

what is that?

a quick test with a 512x512 heightmap and colormap, so there are 260 000 polygons in that, with no texturing, it looks shit at a very close distance, but, as you can see, when zoomed out it shows it can do some nice stuff

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ViPr · Gauss Rifle Trooper **Joined**: 30 Dec 2004

how do the frame rates compare when doing it that way and doing it by using virtual displacement mapping?

Lightstorm · Posted: Mon May 28, 2007 12:46 am Post subject:

Judeau wrote:

Lightstorm wrote:

Update: this is the sidebar i think should be used, ignore the hideous looking defenisve platform and happy looking terrain, the only thing that should be used is the sidebar

with this , you mean a TS style sidebar #Tongue

what do you mean? its a sidebar isn't it?

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Tyler Adams · Posted: Mon May 28, 2007 8:34 am Post subject:

Lightstorm wrote:

Judeau wrote:

Lightstorm wrote:

Update: this is the sidebar i think should be used, ignore the hideous looking defenisve platform and happy looking terrain, the only thing that should be used is the sidebar

with this , you mean a TS style sidebar #Tongue

what do you mean? its a sidebar isn't it?

He means sidebar, not like the gey bottom bar, like in Genz.

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Judeau · Commander **Joined**: 28 Feb 2004

ViPr wrote:

how do the frame rates compare when doing it that way and doing it by using virtual displacement mapping?

a lot of computers don't support that

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DeathRay2K · Commander **Joined**: 01 Sep 2002 **Location**: Canada

How are you creating the heightmap? Is it generated or did you just make it in an image program?

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Judeau · Commander **Joined**: 28 Feb 2004

DeathRay2K wrote:

How are you creating the heightmap? Is it generated or did you just make it in an image program?

just a nice little texture, don't worry though, i'll make some algorithms for terrain generation once i actually start on a map editor

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Portable, no campaign, movies or music, just the engine and needed resources for skirmish and lan.

friday-13th · Posted: Tue May 29, 2007 5:53 pm Post subject:

you know that making this mod in 3d platform would most likely make it a whole diffrent game...

Very Happy

i say yearr

it would be cool if you place the side bar onthe top or th left,go beyond it Rolling Eyes

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DeathRay2K · Commander **Joined**: 01 Sep 2002 **Location**: Canada

Well if you're generating the heightmap you'll have to be very careful that it will always provide adequate flat space for the players to build on, but still look reasonably natural.

Also, I really hope you succeed better than OpenSun did. #Tongue

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ViPr · Gauss Rifle Trooper **Joined**: 30 Dec 2004

Judeau wrote:

ViPr wrote:

how do the frame rates compare when doing it that way and doing it by using virtual displacement mapping?

a lot of computers don't support that

does this mean you are not planning on making your engine better than the C&C3 engine? because if that is the case why would anyone make TS in your engine rather than just make it a mod for C&C3?

ORCACommander · Posted: Tue May 29, 2007 7:19 pm Post subject:

because anything except engine capability is superior to cnc 3 except supcom and the homeworld saga

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Judeau · Commander **Joined**: 28 Feb 2004

ViPr wrote:

Judeau wrote:

ViPr wrote:

how do the frame rates compare when doing it that way and doing it by using virtual displacement mapping?

a lot of computers don't support that

does this mean you are not planning on making your engine better than the C&C3 engine? because if that is the case why would anyone make TS in your engine rather than just make it a mod for C&C3?

because our dear CnC3 engine is perhaps.........incapable of many things ?

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Portable, no campaign, movies or music, just the engine and needed resources for skirmish and lan.

friday-13th · Posted: Tue May 29, 2007 11:16 pm Post subject:

ViPr wrote:

Judeau wrote:

ViPr wrote:

how do the frame rates compare when doing it that way and doing it by using virtual displacement mapping?

a lot of computers don't support that

does this mean you are not planning on making your engine better than the C&C3 engine? because if that is the case why would anyone make TS in your engine rather than just make it a mod for C&C3?

because the mod is for ts,he doesnt want to mod it for cnc3 and it wont be better cause the game isnt better....derrrr

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Pepzi · Posted: Wed May 30, 2007 12:43 pm Post subject:

Quote:

ViPr wrote:
Judeau wrote:
ViPr wrote:
how do the frame rates compare when doing it that way and doing it by using virtual displacement mapping?

a lot of computers don't support that

does this mean you are not planning on making your engine better than the C&C3 engine? because if that is the case why would anyone make TS in your engine rather than just make it a mod for C&C3?

because our dear CnC3 engine is perhaps.........incapable of many things ?

I agree. People tend to underestimate the potential of a new 3D engine in favor of C&C3.

Kiith-Sa · Rocket Cyborg **Joined**: 26 Oct 2004

Well, if Judeau allows that (I certainly hope so), the engine could be supplied with the mod-> e.g. a stand-alone FREE game (Exodus-size TC-s could use this). That's WAY better than a C&C3 mod.

BTW, Judeau, looks like your idea was totally different from my idea from start #Tongue

.
Are you planning on just one big texture for whole thing? I think you could use a file section holding index to material(for deformations,decals) for every point and so per-tile texture, just having one/few huge ones in RAM is pretty bad. Also, what framerate do you get with so many polys from that height?

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Sooner or later...
Time will tell...

Judeau · Commander **Joined**: 28 Feb 2004

Kiith-Sa wrote:

Well, if Judeau allows that (I certainly hope so), the engine could be supplied with the mod-> e.g. a stand-alone FREE game (Exodus-size TC-s could use this). That's WAY better than a C&C3 mod.

BTW, Judeau, looks like your idea was totally different from my idea from start #Tongue

.
Are you planning on just one big texture for whole thing? I think you could use a file section holding index to material(for deformations,decals) for every point and so per-tile texture, just having one/few huge ones in RAM is pretty bad. Also, what framerate do you get with so many polys from that height?

oh this really was just a test of terrain generation according to heightmaps

finished TSO will use actual maps with LOD grids etc #Tongue

, those will be generated by the map editor once it is made

the framerate on this monster of a model is slow on my computer, 1.2 FPS( onboard 3d card, don't laugh #Tongue

), because the thing is rendering more than a quarter million quads

in the end i intend to use geo mipmapping and various culling manners to properly render terrain, but for now, tests are needed, until i've worked out various ways , and then, finally, i can work on making the actual terrain engine

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Kiith-Sa · Rocket Cyborg **Joined**: 26 Oct 2004

Quads? Not triangles?
Is there any difference in speed?
Is the whole thing just one big vertex array?

Actually, I'd expect it to run even slower, 1.2 FPS is pretty good for this imo.

Are you sure about geo mipmapping? It's pretty hard to get right, and I don't think even SAGE/SC/CoH/most of other RTS's use it, altough I don't have any of these games to be totally positive.

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Time will tell...
Sooner or later...
Time will tell...

Von Kriplespac · General **Joined**: 01 Sep 2004 **Location**: Somewhere

Hehe, beat your FPS, Judeau with 16. =3

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Judeau · Commander **Joined**: 28 Feb 2004

Kiith-Sa wrote:

Quads? Not triangles?
Is there any difference in speed?
Is the whole thing just one big vertex array?

Actually, I'd expect it to run even slower, 1.2 FPS is pretty good for this imo.

Are you sure about geo mipmapping? It's pretty hard to get right, and I don't think even SAGE/SC/CoH/most of other RTS's use it, although I don't have any of these games to be totally positive.

Well, they don't have fully customizable viewpoints either, so they don't need it, I'd like it if TSO was capable of this, which would also allow future support for the vehicle controlling.

also, currently using TRIANGLE_STRIP arrays, FPS rate bumped up to 1.5 FPS #Tongue

Though, I am not to sure about having deformable terrain AND different viewpoints, for every weapon hit all different LOD's would have to be adjusted

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Judeau · Commander **Joined**: 28 Feb 2004

oh noes, double post

either way, i bring you a little demo of what i have now, it has one minor problem, and no LOD switching, but i'm sure you'll enjoy it

3d.rar

Description:

Download

Filename:

3d.rar

Filesize:

383.5 KB

Downloaded:

526 Time(s)

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Pepzi · Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2007 6:32 pm Post subject:

Awesome!

Don't have anything useful to say about it though : /

Chrisse · AA Infantry **Joined**: 02 Mar 2006 **Location**: Sweden

cool, but a pretty sensetive carmera, takes 1 sec to spin around 360*, lol

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ViPr · Gauss Rifle Trooper **Joined**: 30 Dec 2004

how on earth have you gone from 1.5 fps to over 200 fps and this is on my really old graphic card that plays modern games awfully.

Judeau · Commander **Joined**: 28 Feb 2004

ViPr wrote:

how on earth have you gone from 1.5 fps to over 200 fps and this is on my really old graphic card that plays modern games awfully.

2 words
frustum culling Laughing

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ChielScape · Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2007 7:16 pm Post subject:

Lightstorm wrote:

Update: this is the sidebar i think should be used, ignore the hideous looking defenisve platform and happy looking terrain, the only thing that should be used is the sidebar
http://content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en/b/b7/Ttpic.jpg

i think you mean to use this exact sidebar, instead of trying to say "use a sidebar, and not a bottom-bar". amiright?

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ViPr · Gauss Rifle Trooper **Joined**: 30 Dec 2004

Judeau, there is a glitch though. some things behind are appearing in front or something. and i don't think frustum culling helps the speed that much. i think it's probably because your computer doesn't have any graphic card.

Judeau · Commander **Joined**: 28 Feb 2004

ViPr wrote:

Judeau, there is a glitch though. some things behind are appearing in front or something. and i don't think frustum culling helps the speed that much. i think it's probably because your computer doesn't have any graphic card.

ah, i thought it was in comparison to your OWN previous attempt, if any such existed

though, frustum culling has gotten me a 350% speed boost
and yes, as i said, "it has one minor problem"

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ViPr · Gauss Rifle Trooper **Joined**: 30 Dec 2004

no i didn't try your terrain program previously. btw i was using a geforce 6800. i'm wondering what FPS the people with geforce 8800 are getting. anyone?